Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

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Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun May 29, 2016 7:26 pm

So if anyone wants to comment on PGCW, here's the place to do this :numberone:

So a couple comments from me: Yeah, I'm bummed about the no commentary too, but I was just unsatisfied with the results and I don't live alone which makes me prone to interruptions unless I can ensure privacy. Maybe I'll try to do live commentary for a show in the future, but right now, just not feeling it.

Second: I'm aware of how blurry the video is. I used Windows 10's built in screencap system because fuck paying 37 dollars for fraps. A freeware screencap system has been brought to my attention, and I'll be experimenting with it come episode 4.

Third: My ongoing issues with getting jobbers to be... jobber-y continues. I wanted the first match to end much shorter. It's doubly annoying that I've yet to see King get a CRITICAL! despite having submission crit and all the permutations of his finisher all have sub crit... and I put criticals on High for most matches. If anyone has an idea on how I can make my jobbers better at losing, let me know. I have them Ukemi at 0 instead of 100 so they don't get a Spirit boost- maybe I should put them at 100 instead?
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:31 pm

I caught the show on my phone during the weekend and wasn't able to comment then. Just wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the write-up portion (Oct Raven level of entertainment quality 8-) ) but didn't get a chance to watch the matches.

Wanted to respond to this post though with my input:

October Raven wrote:So if anyone wants to comment on PGCW, here's the place to do this :numberone:

So a couple comments from me: Yeah, I'm bummed about the no commentary too, but I was just unsatisfied with the results and I don't live alone which makes me prone to interruptions unless I can ensure privacy. Maybe I'll try to do live commentary for a show in the future, but right now, just not feeling it.


It's understandable that commentary is difficult when you will get interrupted. One idea is to work that into the story. Where someone from "the network" keeps handing you notes about what to say. Or, you could just say that your commentary dubbing takes place in a studio where a lot is going on and sometimes confusion occurs.

"WHO ORDERED A FUCKING PIZZA!?"
"UH...sorry fans :oops: "

October Raven wrote:Second: I'm aware of how blurry the video is. I used Windows 10's built in screencap system because fuck paying 37 dollars for fraps. A freeware screencap system has been brought to my attention, and I'll be experimenting with it come episode 4.


Have you heard about the word of Geezus the Open Broadcaster System program? OBS? You may want to give that a try. I haven't found my "settings rhythm" with it but its cheap as free and some people prefer it to FRAPS anyway.

October Raven wrote:Third: My ongoing issues with getting jobbers to be... jobber-y continues. I wanted the first match to end much shorter. It's doubly annoying that I've yet to see King get a CRITICAL! despite having submission crit and all the permutations of his finisher all have sub crit... and I put criticals on High for most matches. If anyone has an idea on how I can make my jobbers better at losing, let me know. I have them Ukemi at 0 instead of 100 so they don't get a Spirit boost- maybe I should put them at 100 instead?


CRITICALS are random for the most part but there are a few special skills that increase the % of them happening.

10 years after the game came out, I'm still very conservative with ukemi and tend to set it in a way that it won't take over the match. It's hard to give advice about that though but I tend to set it to avoid the boost altogether.

If you want jobbers better at losing, one hurdle is the RNG. Even Corey O'Brian will have little recourse against Luke Kisiera if the RNG allows Luke to win every grapple. (Luke probably hacked the system). So realize that a lot of matches that jobbers are doing too well are completely not your fault or within your control. What I do now, knowing the RNG issues, is simply restart a match where one guy is getting too much offense in rather than waste time. Sure comebacks are awesome but you don't really want a "comeback" match against a jobber. Hogan doesn't need to "Hulk up" against guys who don't even have entrances. Just restart the match and hope for a better more accurate one for what you are going for.

Aside from that, try to make sure their early/mid match moves don't have too many points assigned. And limit their subs to moves that can't actually win but look like they could. That end match sub can still have audience drama even if it has no actual in game chance of winning. And put low points on tech offense to make sure pins don't do damage.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:51 pm

I've tried OBS to record Episode 4 but... I just saw the output and went "NOPE" and went back to Win10 recorder.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:36 pm

Comments:

First of, I swear I didn't intentionally pattern Jim Rival off of Misawa. That being said I love how he turned out as a concept. His main offense sets up for a potential finisher; Three of his four big match enders are double chickenwing moves, so he weakens the arms to keep him from breaking his grip while rocking them with elbows to keep them from having the wits to escape in other ways, and the elbows also soften them up for the roaring elbow. There's a simple elegance to his moveset which just kind of happened rather than me designing it that way. This was also an example of how I tried to structure these guys too, that their "main" finishers usually get the three count (though with King I'm trying to frame the Cthulhu Clutch as people scouting for it and escaping before he can get a proper grip; once he GETS that proper grip, it's over)

Mongo vs Megaton turned out PERFECTLY and establishes Mongo's role as the resident monster heel. Also a little tidbit, while Botchamania is obviously the inspiration for using the Blazing Saddles clip for Mongo's entrance, Mongo is actually named after a childhood dog I had. He MIGHT be named after the Blazing Saddles character, I'd have to ask. Mongo was the most energetic of the dogs we had when I was growing up, so I thought it'd be a great name for a crazed wildman hoss.

Wrecker Jr and Scott Saphyre were two of the first guys I designed specifically for this project. Wrecker is kind of based off of Cactus Jack in that he's a brawler guy who's also a risk taker. Scott Saphyre is the local boy who I hope to have in that fine line between upper midcard and main eventer. I actually almost threw out this match to redo it as I wanted Death Wears Blue to be treated with a bit more gravitas, but Wrecker kicking out of it TWICE establishes him as too crazy to stay down so I left it as is.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:23 am

INTRO MOVIE: GET

Kelley vs Mongo is a first take, there's some audio glitches cause I had to use OBS as win10 recorder wouldn't work and I didn't realize the audio problem BUT it doesn't seem to hurt it much and I loved the way it turned out too much to try to do over.

Queen's match was the hardest to get right. I also wanted BLACKBIRD Sora's match to end with Sora's finisher but oh well.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:43 am

Another thing I forgot to mention about Kathy Queen, but she may or may not be a fan of a certain OG-Joshi top heel.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 am

You are doing awesome work here and I really want to be able to follow this more closely. I was hoping to get some time this week to do some reading and video watching. You have ONCE AGAIN (for like the 5th or 6th time) started a new and totally unique promotion from scratch and have already done awesome things with it within the first month or so 8-)
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:44 pm

So using the template of "Happened at another fed's show" is how I might also have YouTube title matches every week wether I can fit them on the main show or not.

Really didn't expect/want the "guy gets tagged in and immediately takes a finisher" ending to that match, but it advanced the narrative in the way I wanted it to AND gives Arch Rivals a win to boost their credibility so.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:31 am

Alex Kelley vs RIP was a really really good match. Not the result I wanted, but it was too good a match with such a good ending that I had to keep it.

King vs Mongo was a different story. King would keep winning but in such a dominant fashion. Not want I wanted at all. The double countout was good but was too short. So I took a match where Mongo got to be competitive and gave it a finish that allows for a bigger rematch.

I also wasn't too high with how King vs GAMEOVER came out, but put side by side with the Mongo match it really makes more sense; King is PISSED OFF and took it out on the newbie.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:23 am

So a comment and an informal announcment.

My decision to have a fourth match this week was entirely last minute and I capped the match (the tag match) Friday night. I try to make every show last 20-30 minutes and while the other three matches totaled just over 20 I didn't see harm in adding one more.

Anyway the announcement; Jacob Toombs and Mario Black are NOT the only new faces that have been planned. PGCW's world is about to get a bit bigger and CHICKEN CLUB won't be the only gang in town anymore.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:24 am

So I want to talk about this episode. If you're reading this first, watch Episode 25 first, then come back here. Otherwise click the spoiler tag.

Spoiler: show
I am not happy with how this angle turned out, production wise.

My plan to have entrances and a full beatdown. I had to basically BUTCHER the beatdown footage. I had about four minutes of it.

That tag match just went TOO LONG and my policy is to only cut from matches when absolutely necessary.

I also wanted the DVS guys to win, but the result isn't upsetting so much as how goddamn long it was. It's a good match! Just about twice as long as I was expecting it to take.

As far as the identity of the DVS guys... I haven't figured out a persona for A yet other than being a master of the SPINNING TOE HOLD because I have an odd obsession with that hold and I'd love to see it as a finisher IRL. B is another story, but I'm not ready to unmask him yet.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:19 pm

So again, I'm considering dropping the weekly format. New job and not sure how much time and energy I'll be able to devote to this.

It'll still be going! Just not weekly. If.

As it stands I've taped to what would be a suitable "Season Finale" for the TV. Won't be a definite though, let's see how this next week goes.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:39 am

So I decided that, yes, next week will indeed be the Season One Finale.

This will give me time to figure out if I want to make a "regular indy" schedule a permanent thing, as well as make a new intro and to experiment with a different format.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:05 am

I've been giving this a lot of thought over the past few weeks for my own purposes. I think that a Japanese style "tour" system (but no more than 2 a year) may be an idea worth trying for a long time fedder who wants to give their usual e-fed energy but does not have the same time they used to. The idea of monthly (let alone weekly) shows, or any type of given interval, kind of is impossible for me right now. But with a tour, you don't need to have a set interval PLUS you can book everything around the tour theme and end show.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:03 am

So this is kind of both a demo for my new writeup format (borrowed from OrochiGeese's) and also a bit of a showcase for some edits that don't really fit into the PGCW mold. Florida Man as a wrestler is a relatively new concept of mine but Psycho Santa is an idea I've had for a while.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:28 pm

I think I borrowed that format from PW-W ten years ago :lol:

You did it really well. Much more concise than my commentary has gotten over the years. Even when I tried to have Wingate "host" the show in an attempt to force me to write less, I still went nuts. I really like your commentary as it presents the story very well and in an intriguing way.

Match was hot too!

Spoiler: show
My favorite spot was Santa trying to swing the chair on the outside but Florida man hitting that awesome flipping kick on him. And of course the powerbomb to the outside was the perfect way to end that fall and was brutal. The fact that the first two falls ended in a count-out was great, it made the third fall even more awaited. Love the sequence to finish the match as well. I've always wanted to use that C2C lariat more but it lacked the impact to finish - so I like that you sequenced it into a submission.


Very cool match and mini-show here! 8-)
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

orochigeese wrote:I think I borrowed that format from PW-W ten years ago :lol:

You did it really well. Much more concise than my commentary has gotten over the years. Even when I tried to have Wingate "host" the show in an attempt to force me to write less, I still went nuts. I really like your commentary as it presents the story very well and in an intriguing way.

Match was hot too!

Spoiler: show
My favorite spot was Santa trying to swing the chair on the outside but Florida man hitting that awesome flipping kick on him. And of course the powerbomb to the outside was the perfect way to end that fall and was brutal. The fact that the first two falls ended in a count-out was great, it made the third fall even more awaited. Love the sequence to finish the match as well. I've always wanted to use that C2C lariat more but it lacked the impact to finish - so I like that you sequenced it into a submission.


Very cool match and mini-show here! 8-)


Spoiler: show
Actually, that's NOT a sequence move. He has a small chance to apply the move without a setup. His sequence moves are the pumphandle slam, the irish whip release frankensteiner, and the top rope grinding rana.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:40 am

So asking for feedback time but... does my roster seem too big right now, or just right?

I have two more planned debuts (a tag team and a singles guy) and I want to try to keep the show so EVERYONE has a match. I just wonder if I have too big a roster to work with.

After the debuts I plan to have more "indy" guys who might show up in Creative Commons title matches. I feel as of right now I have a solid roster: A "Three Musketeers" in Kelley, King, and Cyborg, A veteran in Joey Venom, name draws in RIP and Jacob Toombs, resident monsters in Mongo and DESPAIR, and rising stars in Spider Jack and Scott Saphyre.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:44 am

Last batch of promos were awesome:

WK: "And I am the darkest terror of them all. DESPAIR, you probably think you can scare me like all the others. See your whole 'I will destroy your hope' bullshit doesn't work on me. Hope is for the weak. I have confidence. Meaning your mindgames have no effect on me. And without your mindgames... you're no monster. You're just an overgrown goth kid. This isn't going to be my greatest challenge like people are claiming. This will be my easiest payday ever."


Love that. King totally gets how to psychologically dismantle those who try to do the same to him 8-)

I think your roster seems just right now. I really like the flexibility of the Creative Commons idea as well. It allows you to shift some guys to your roster when needed but also redirect them outward at other times.

It's easy for rosters to balloon and all of us e-fedders have to expect it to happen. Not counting multiple handler e-feds, I can't remember any e-fed in the history of e-feds that suddenly got smaller and needed more edits :lol: (well not without an edit pack corruption or something along those lines). Therefore, the best thing you can do is EXPECT the roster to get bigger and have a set place to funnel some edits when you need to. Whether that be something like the Creative Commons division or a feeder fed or even a totally different project altogether, I think you are at a good size and can use the CC to your advantage down the line.

I really wish I had more e-fed time these days to take things in. PGC is one of your best projects ever. You have such a great balance between entertaining and competitive/threats. Chicken Club hits on all cylinders and William King and Kathy Queen are awesome. Most importantly, it seems you are having a lot of fun with this 8-)
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:46 pm

Thanks for the input/praise OG :)

Also, a slight behind-the-scenes note and it's why I edited the pre-show to show Cyborg's win count: I'm still doing the "5 Wins = Guaranteed Title Match" stip for the CC title, only with a slight amendment.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:59 am

Insert Valentines Cliche Here main event

Spoiler: show
THAT CRITICAL THO :shock:

Crazy thing is, I don't think that should have happened as IIRC DESPAIR has Finisher Crit.

I gave John Foreman Guts for this match only so that the match would be more dramatic and I'm really glad I did. That match fucking RULED.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:02 pm

So serious question here but.... does anyone even give a shit about the videos posted?

I mean I look at the view count, most are 0 views, and I'm not sure if that's just YouTube being a dick or what.

I know people are READING it, which is awesome, and I'm not considering stopping the fed. I'm just not sure if people are actually seeing the videos or not and if they're not, then should I keep uploading them?
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:56 pm

I love what you do here but I haven't had time to view the full videos or any videos in the past week.

My advice is to hold off for now for two reasons:

1) The e-fed scene has been reinvigorated over the past month which is AWESOME. But it has also led to more videos being out there for people (with reduced time) to watch. I think we have to be more selective with what matches we post and maybe switch to quick videos showing off special and unique spots.

2) As exciting as the announcement of a new Fire Pro is, it will most likely diminish interest in FPR videos for e-feds. I remember the FPD to FPR transition and once FPR was announced, a lot of people immediately got a little jaded with FPD. I think FPR videos have an uphill battle to get attention right now.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby October Raven » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:40 pm

Those are some good points, Geese. That being said, I think I'll still upload the match videos anyway, if nothing else but for posterity.

But you've made me feel less anxious about the 0 views issue :D

Also, some fedder commentary re: DESPAIR

Spoiler: show
While I've gotten some praise for the DESPAIR character, and I'm really happy with how the DESPAIR storyline has turned out, well, I always saw the character as having a shelf life.

That being said I actually expected DESPAIR to beat King in the gauntlet, but I guess there's a limit to the power of Hardbody.

I know this kind of gives away how I plan Saphyre vs DESPAIR to go (not that it wasn't already obvious IMO) but I really feel DESPAIR has kind of run his course.

I might bring back DESPAIR, but right now I want to try to freshen things up.


And towards injured characters:

Spoiler: show
Danny Danger will come back soon, and Jim Rival's also going to sell the Homewrecker for a bit too as I'm in love with the accidental storyline of Wrecker Jr injuring people with it. Mario Black might not be coming back though, at least not without a logic overhaul to make him less... just kinda there in his matches.
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Re: Proving Ground Championship Wrestling- DISCUSSION

Postby orochigeese » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:53 am

October Raven wrote:Those are some good points, Geese. That being said, I think I'll still upload the match videos anyway, if nothing else but for posterity.

But you've made me feel less anxious about the 0 views issue :D


Last show I posted got 0 reaction. And that was before all the FP WORLD hype :lol:

Given the new game and the understandable hype, and the also understandable de-hyping of FPR, and my reduced free time, I'm probably going to stop producing regularly scheduled FPR e-fed match videos for the time being. I have a ton of stuff for the rest of my tour but I don't really see the point right now in making new ones for the short term. If I do any videos, they may be match clips of particularly cool spots (e-fed or just for simming purposes) or story line stuff. And really, if I did want to make videos out of the new game, it may be an uphill battle with this computer plus the turnover time of making any new edits.

I figure I'll cap the big end show of the tour and that could possibly be my last FPR e-fed videos ever :shock:

I still remember the end of 2005 when I was rushing to port OG-FPD and OG-Joshi edits over to FPR before the big year end show. It wasn't a great way to break in a new game, really. I want to avoid doing that this time.
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