The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

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soak314
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The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:48 am

*All footage works off a Finishing Move > Pin Sequence. The edit used for these tests has a 20/20/20 Ukemi spread, 10's in all offenses and 1's in all defenses. He uses Finisher as a special skill. The referee moves and counts as fast as possible, and the ropes are turned off *

*HUEG REWRITES, mainly terminology changes with added critical bits of info on how the match end ukemi boosts affect the nearfalls. Thanks Carlzilla!*

***
When version 1.0100 dropped, they added a small feature to the already cryptic ukemi system.

Ukemi bonus now applied to escaping a pin you would otherwise not escape from. (When using Ukemi, the damage you take is transferred into a Spirit boost when your Spirit reaches 0.)


Can't be firepro without some good old fashioned vagueness, so I went ahead and ran a bunch of tests just to see what the heck is meant to happen during nearfalls.

This video shows a standard nearfall, followed by a successful pin. Watch the lifebars on the right. Standard nearfalls will drain spirit on the pin attempt, and on kickout. If you watch the little countdown timer on the far right corner of the lifebars, you'll see that if it runs out before the ref hits 3, you get a kickout.

This is a zero state ukemi boost. Left lifebars. It happened because the pin attempt pushed the uke's (guy taking move) spirit past 0. The spirit gain influences the down timer, and it's short enough for the edit to kick out.

This is also a zero state ukemi boost. Left lifebars. As you can see, it wasn't enough to help. Whatever spirit was regained as net positive did not get the down timer short enough for a kickout.

This is a 2.9 state ukemi boost. Right lifebars. Likely the new ukemi check. It only triggers when:

a.) the edit is under 25% spirit

b.) the edit's spirit has yet to hit 0 or less and therefore has not yet triggered zero state ukemi boost

A 2.9 state boost won't work all the time, however. This is a 2.9 state ukemi boost that has failed to yield a kickout. If the boost the edit gets from this is not enough take them back above 25% spirit, they do not kick out on time.

This is also a 2.9 state ukemi boost activating after the edit takes a huge amount of damage. Right lifebars. It's way past 25% so the edit kicks out. This kind of boost happens when the edit has taken large amounts of damage from moves that ukemi has allowed to happen. In this case, most of the damage was probably from the ganso just before.

Both 0 state and 2.9 state ukemi boosts can only happen once. It's one or the other, then no more for that edit in the match.

Both will also give the edit an increase to offense:

Carlzilla wrote:While you've activated your Ukemi Bonus there's a period afterwards where you do 20% more damage. You can see that you earn 1800 frames (about 30 real life seconds) of this condition for each 7680 points of ukemi bonus you have stored up until 30720 bonus points . So if you maxed that shit out, you will be doing 20% more damage for the next minute and a half real time (or about 3 in match minutes).


One last video, showing an exchange of comebacks, both ukemi boost types, and how they can influence the end portion of a match. The initial 2.9 state ukemi boost saves Tiburon and allows him to very quickly catch up with Mammal. The spirit and damage boosts let him kick out of what would have been a straight squash before the current patch. Once he hits the super dragon suplex, it sends Mammal to 0 state. Her ukemi boost kicks in, and it is massive. This lets her kick out of the pin priod to the super dragon suplex, and out of a superkick > pin right after. The final dragon suplex is F boosted, and sends Mammal straight to 0 spirit/0 HP for the win.
Last edited by soak314 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby JonIsDude » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:00 am

Great thread soak.

Extremely useful information about the game system.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Zealot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Agreed. Opened my eyes quite a bit. I need to get in the mod game soon. Those health bars are super helpful.
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby senator » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pm

Very useful thread here. Thanks for the scientific study of post-patch Ukemi, I'm not sure I like this change very much, but I do appreciate being able to better figure out what's going on with this. I'd like to see what some drastically different progressions, like a 45/30/10 or a 15/5/0 or a 5/5/25 would do with this, too. Also interesting that pinning grapple moves don't have a connection to the boosted kickouts, if I'm reading that right.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby pkawesome » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:51 pm

I find this very fascinating. Basically, you can emulate a WWE babyface match better now (probably without needing REBORN) due to the Ukemi buildup and rebound.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:40 pm

Cheers all!

senator wrote:I'm not sure I like this change very much, but I do appreciate being able to better figure out what's going on with this. I'd like to see what some drastically different progressions, like a 45/30/10 or a 15/5/0 or a 5/5/25 would do with this, too.


On paper, setting ukemi to 0 during late match should minimize unwanted nearfalls. Ukemi boosts happen frequently on a 20/20/20 spread, throughout the match. They're practically guaranteed to go off during a sub at some point, because subs can proc ukemi boosts per tick of damage they do (part of why they can seem a lot weaker in terms of spirit dps, an ukemi boosted sub typically just gives the opponent spirit back).

Keeping your ukemi stockpiling phases at sml and med should encourage any boosts to happen before the 3 count, stopping potential use of the ukemi nearfall.

I haven't focus tested edits with high late game ukemi yet, but I do plan on fishing for a spread that can get more than one ukemi nearfall per test.

senator wrote: Also interesting that pinning grapple moves don't have a connection to the boosted kickouts, if I'm reading that right.


This needs some really extensive testing across move types. So far I've tested the Powerbomb and the Fire Powerbomb. They can't seem to trigger ukemi boosts on the move hitting, and I haven't seen a single ukemi nearfall off them. I'm guessing it's because an ukemi boost is resolved during the 'on the mat' state , and being hit with a pinning move from standing grapple might not be considered 'on the mat'. For reference, standing stuff like eye poke, elbow butt, face rake, don't trigger an ukemi boost either.

I'll need to test it on flash pins, too.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:40 pm

I've been finding Reborn really annoying to use over the last couple of months and this change has me considering dropping it from those edits in favor of something else. I have yet to test out Chasity Bowen in a match since the patch dropped. She's 20/100/0 and prior to the patch she was susceptible to early losses because of it. If Reborn didn't proc soon enough or the Ukemi swing didn't go off, she didn't have a chance. Conversely, if it did happen, she was a lot harder to defeat.

My other edits that I recall having it, Jessica Shields and Brigitte Larrson, have much less drastic Ukemi swings. I'm pretty sure they rest around 10/40/0 or so for the both of them. With the update, I'm starting to doubt if it's even worth the effort to have Late match Ukemi set to 0 anymore.
The_PR_Dragon wrote:Dragons, Emus, and Wolves are all hearing impaired. Sounds about right.


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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:08 pm

This is the kind of stuff designing logic around unf's can get you.

That mess of colors is Mammal. She is built entirely around the ukemi near fall. She's a Power/Power giant. 10 in all offenses and 1 in all defenses, poor/poor spirit slow/slow recovery and good/good breathing. 0/40/80 ukemi spread. Special Skill: Start Dash.

Her job is to get both the opponent and herself into large as fast as she can, while keeping a good portion of both their spirit bars.

PSYCHOLOGY INTERLUDE
Spoiler: show
This match style is based on how I feel hoss or giant match psychology should work: the big person is often not fit for long periods of exertion (and is also generally terrible at the technical aspects of pro wres), so the two edits will get to the big, impressive point much faster.


Mammal often gets the opponent to large first. She deals massive damage across the match, so her opponent's ukemi boosts tend to be enormous. If she triggers an opponent's ukemi proc off one of her big moves, she will give the opponent hella spirit. (auto pinning moves confirmed to trigger unf, as seen in the first 2.9 state boost in this video)

And with this particular instance of that hella spirit boost happening, Tiburon does a good job of making a proper comeback. Mammal's nonexistent defenses make it so Tiburon gets her into large with a few good moves, and he starts laying on his many potential finishes.

Of interest is the gigantic 0 state boost Mammal gains after the super dragon suplex. It's so big because everything she takes does huge damage to her. This fresh boost lets her kick out of a la magistral and a strike exchange superkick before finally succumbing to a deadly tights adjust Nivel Cuatro.

Safe to say I am beginning to really like this new change.

EDIT: Fixed terminology
Last edited by soak314 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 pm

So do you recommend not using 0 Ukemi?

Is 100 Ukemi still pretty risky?
The_PR_Dragon wrote:Dragons, Emus, and Wolves are all hearing impaired. Sounds about right.


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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:25 pm

So notes on kickouts...

The StandardKeyInput_PinfallDef() method is called before the Update_MatchUI() method, which may explain some of the downtime displays, but downtime isn't the only factor in a kickout.

While in a pinfall, this happens everytime a face button is pressed:

Code: Select all

   
   global::PadBtnEnum padBtnEnum = (global::PadBtnEnum)2047;
   if ((this.padPush & padBtnEnum) != (global::PadBtnEnum)0)
   {
      this.RecoverSP(20f);
   }


Basically the edit regains 20 spirit each button press. However, the medium attack button is the only button that actually triggers a kickout. A kick out will happen if the down time reaches zero...OR at 2.9 based on spirit.

On a nearfall, this is the kickout code:

Code: Select all

      else if (referee && referee.isCount29)
      {
         if (global::MatchMisc.GetParamRate(this.SP) <= 25f)
         {
            this.InvokeUkeBonus();
         }
         if (global::MatchMisc.GetParamRate(this.SP) > 25f)
         {
            this.AddSP(-6144f);
            this.animator.isReqAnmLoopEnd = true;
            this.SetDownTime(0);
            if (paramRate < 2.34f)
            {
               this.SetBP(155399.891f);
            }
         }


So, this tells us that if a wrestler is being pinned and their spirit is below 25% to trigger the ukemi bonus. If this brings their spirit above 25% they will not be pinned..otherwise they will.

If they do not get pinned, there's a roughly 6,000 spirit hit for almost being pinned...but that subtraction takes place AFTER the kickout is already an assured thing, but before the actual kickout animation is triggered to happen.

Here's the Ukemi Bonus code for those who are curious to what exactly the Ukemi is doing:

Code: Select all

   if (this.isInvokedUkeBonus)
   {
      return;
   }
   this.isInvokedUkeBonus = true;
   this.AddSP((float)(this.UkeRecoveryPoint / 2));
   this.UkeBonusTime = 0;
   if (this.UkeRecoveryPoint > 7680)
   {
      this.UkeBonusTime += 1800;
   }
   if (this.UkeRecoveryPoint > 15360)
   {
      this.UkeBonusTime += 1800;
   }
   if (this.UkeRecoveryPoint > 30720)
   {
      this.UkeBonusTime += 1800;
   }


The first few lines make it a one shot thing. If they've already used it it just dumps the running code back to where it entered the method.

After that it gives you HALF the built up UkeRecoveryPoints you've earned and sets your UkeBonusTime to whatever based on how much that bonus was.

Here's something you should know that I don't think has ever been revealed...

Code: Select all

   if (plObj.UkeBonusTime > 0)
   {
      moveDamage *= 1.2f;
   }


While you've activated your Ukemi Bonus there's a period afterwards where you do 20% more damage. You can see that you earn 1800 frames (about 30 real life seconds) of this condition for each 7680 points of ukemi bonus you have stored up until 30720 bonus points . So if you maxed that shit out, you will be doing 20% more damage for the next minute and a half real time (or about 3 in match minutes).

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby TigerSword » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:10 pm

Spirit boost plus.extra damage is definitely the recipe for a big comeback.
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:33 pm

Fuckiiin awesome Carl.

Carlzilla wrote:So, this tells us that if a wrestler is being pinned and their spirit is below 25% to trigger the ukemi bonus. If this brings their spirit above 25% they will not be pinned..otherwise they will.


Nice, that's a hard and fast ruling. Fully supported by some footage I've taken of the ukemi kickout boost happening despite a 3 count (a failed ukemi nearfall).

Carlzilla wrote:The first few lines make it a one shot thing. If they've already used it it just dumps the running code back to where it entered the method.

After that it gives you HALF the built up UkeRecoveryPoints you've earned and sets your UkeBonusTime to whatever based on how much that bonus was.


Clarification: if the >25% ukemi boost saves an edit once, it cannot happen again? Also do regular ukemi boosts (the kind that happen after moves) also give half points in the same manner?

Carlzilla wrote:While you've activated your Ukemi Bonus there's a period afterwards where you do 20% more damage. You can see that you earn 1800 frames (about 30 real life seconds) of this condition for each 7680 points of ukemi bonus you have stored up until 30720 bonus points . So if you maxed that shit out, you will be doing 20% more damage for the next minute and a half real time (or about 3 in match minutes).


:shock: That IS brand new info. Does it apply to ukemi boosts across the board? It totally explains why 20/20/20 spread edits feel so "competitive" (constant ukemi boosting = constant spirit gain and micro damage buffs).

CF_Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:So do you recommend not using 0 Ukemi?

Is 100 Ukemi still pretty risky?


Going 0 ukemi late is basically telling the edit to stop stockpiling ukemi bonus once it gets to large. I think this would dramatically decrease the chance of an ukemi nearfall happening, as the edit would most likely use up ukemi bonus on various ukemi boosts before the risky <25% spirit 3 count that can trigger the new mechanics.

Going 100 ukemi is proabably the exact opposite. You'd likely be guaranteed a successful ukemi nearfall at the cost of gimped reversals.


EDIT: I've improved this reply a few posts down.
Last edited by soak314 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:44 pm

soak314 wrote:Fuckiiin awesome Carl.

Carlzilla wrote:So, this tells us that if a wrestler is being pinned and their spirit is below 25% to trigger the ukemi bonus. If this brings their spirit above 25% they will not be pinned..otherwise they will.


Nice, that's a hard and fast ruling. Fully supported by some footage I've taken of the ukemi kickout boost happening despite a 3 count (a failed ukemi nearfall).

Carlzilla wrote:The first few lines make it a one shot thing. If they've already used it it just dumps the running code back to where it entered the method.

After that it gives you HALF the built up UkeRecoveryPoints you've earned and sets your UkeBonusTime to whatever based on how much that bonus was.


Clarification: if the >25% ukemi boost saves an edit once, it cannot happen again? Also do regular ukemi boosts (the kind that happen after moves) also give half points in the same manner?


The Ukemi boost is a singular thing. Meaning that 25% spirit pinfall defense ukemi boost will only happen if you have not already received your ukemi boost, and that it is not different in ANY WAY to the one you receive after a move brings you to 0 or negative spirit...all Ukemi boosts give half of the stored value.

soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:While you've activated your Ukemi Bonus there's a period afterwards where you do 20% more damage. You can see that you earn 1800 frames (about 30 real life seconds) of this condition for each 7680 points of ukemi bonus you have stored up until 30720 bonus points . So if you maxed that shit out, you will be doing 20% more damage for the next minute and a half real time (or about 3 in match minutes).


:shock: That IS brand new info. Does it apply to ukemi boosts across the board? It totally explains why 20/20/20 spread edits feel so "competitive" (constant ukemi boosting = constant spirit gain and micro damage buffs).


An actual ukemi boost can only happen a single time in a match. There are TWO conditions which will trigger it, and whichever one happens first will be the ONLY condition to trigger it in any given match since it can only happen once.

The two conditions are:
After a move that leaves your spirit at or below 0%
Being in a pinfall while the referee is in a 2.9 state and having spirit below 25%

I'm not 100% certain, but it seems like you are under the impression that you get a boost every time you use Ukemi, or once per damage state or something, which is incorrect.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:54 pm

Carlzilla wrote:The two conditions are:
After a move that leaves your spirit at or below 0%
Being in a pinfall while the referee is in a 2.9 state and having spirit below 25%

I'm not 100% certain, but it seems like you are under the impression that you get a boost every time you use Ukemi, or once per damage state or something, which is incorrect.


Okay, ukemi boost = big stockpiled spirit buff at 0 spirit/2.9 state

What exactly are the micro spirit boosts that happen right after moves, spread all across the match? Is that simply ukemi occurring due to the set percentages? They don't occur at all if you set an edit's ukemi spread to 0/0/0.

Also Dawn disregard that last post until I can clear the terminology up pls.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby JonIsDude » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:00 pm

soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:The two conditions are:
After a move that leaves your spirit at or below 0%
Being in a pinfall while the referee is in a 2.9 state and having spirit below 25%

I'm not 100% certain, but it seems like you are under the impression that you get a boost every time you use Ukemi, or once per damage state or something, which is incorrect.


Okay, ukemi boost = big stockpiled spirit buff at 0 spirit/2.9 state

What exactly are the micro spirit boosts that happen right after moves, spread all across the match? Is that simply ukemi occurring due to the set percentages? They don't occur at all if you set an edit's ukemi spread to 0/0/0.

Also Dawn disregard that last post until I can clear the terminology up pls.


The Spirit boosts on submission escapes is related to the level of the Spirit stats.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:15 pm

soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:The two conditions are:
After a move that leaves your spirit at or below 0%
Being in a pinfall while the referee is in a 2.9 state and having spirit below 25%

I'm not 100% certain, but it seems like you are under the impression that you get a boost every time you use Ukemi, or once per damage state or something, which is incorrect.


Okay, ukemi boost = big stockpiled spirit buff at 0 spirit/2.9 state

What exactly are the micro spirit boosts that happen right after moves, spread all across the match? Is that simply ukemi occurring due to the set percentages? They don't occur at all if you set an edit's ukemi spread to 0/0/0.

Also Dawn disregard that last post until I can clear the terminology up pls.


There a LOTS of instances where spirit is recovered (the bottom list of methods marked by the red outline).
Image

In every one of those situations portions of your spirit are recovered. Some are tied to Ukemi, some are not. The ones tied to Ukemi are NOT your Ukemi boost, but most usually tied to something else that makes sense in recovering spirit, like escaping a signature hold or something.

The 2nd set is any time spirit is added or taken away. Since almost all of the adding is done through RecoverSP(), most of the methods contained here that call AddSP() are actually adding a negative value (subtracting SP).

The first red box shows the ONLY two methods that trigger the actual Ukemi Boost, and I've posted the trigger code in previous posts, so any other Ukemi based spirit boosts are not related to your actual Ukemi Boost.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:44 pm

Carlzilla wrote:In every one of those situations portions of your spirit are recovered. Some are tied to Ukemi, some are not. The ones tied to Ukemi are NOT your Ukemi boost, but most usually tied to something else that makes sense in recovering spirit, like escaping a signature hold or something.

The 2nd set is any time spirit is added or taken away. Since almost all of the adding is done through RecoverSP(), most of the methods contained here that call AddSP() are actually adding a negative value (subtracting SP).

The first red box shows the ONLY two methods that trigger the actual Ukemi Boost, and I've posted the trigger code in previous posts, so any other Ukemi based spirit boosts are not related to your actual Ukemi Boost.


Cool, I was calling the smaller boosts ukemi boosts in the writeups. I'll change em up with a summary of all this.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby JonIsDude » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:30 pm

soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:In every one of those situations portions of your spirit are recovered. Some are tied to Ukemi, some are not. The ones tied to Ukemi are NOT your Ukemi boost, but most usually tied to something else that makes sense in recovering spirit, like escaping a signature hold or something.

The 2nd set is any time spirit is added or taken away. Since almost all of the adding is done through RecoverSP(), most of the methods contained here that call AddSP() are actually adding a negative value (subtracting SP).

The first red box shows the ONLY two methods that trigger the actual Ukemi Boost, and I've posted the trigger code in previous posts, so any other Ukemi based spirit boosts are not related to your actual Ukemi Boost.


Cool, I was calling the smaller boosts ukemi boosts in the writeups. I'll change em up with a summary of all this.


Took me a bit to find the info from Jason Blackhart's System Guide. (https://web.archive.org/web/20081014192 ... index.html) Got a bit busy when I posted earlier.

A lot of spirit boosts that happen on Health Meters from Subs are from breaking them. I'm sure Ukemi boosts exist on Subs too. It just happens that Subs in this game Early Match tend to give people net positive Spirit. Lowering the Base Spirit stat could help with that.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:50 pm

JonIsDude wrote:
soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:In every one of those situations portions of your spirit are recovered. Some are tied to Ukemi, some are not. The ones tied to Ukemi are NOT your Ukemi boost, but most usually tied to something else that makes sense in recovering spirit, like escaping a signature hold or something.

The 2nd set is any time spirit is added or taken away. Since almost all of the adding is done through RecoverSP(), most of the methods contained here that call AddSP() are actually adding a negative value (subtracting SP).

The first red box shows the ONLY two methods that trigger the actual Ukemi Boost, and I've posted the trigger code in previous posts, so any other Ukemi based spirit boosts are not related to your actual Ukemi Boost.


Cool, I was calling the smaller boosts ukemi boosts in the writeups. I'll change em up with a summary of all this.


Took me a bit to find the info from Jason Blackhart's System Guide. (https://web.archive.org/web/20081014192 ... index.html) Got a bit busy when I posted earlier.

A lot of spirit boosts that happen on Health Meters from Subs are from breaking them. I'm sure Ukemi boosts exist on Subs too. It just happens that Subs in this game Early Match tend to give people net positive Spirit. Lowering the Base Spirit stat could help with that.

Image


Very little of the small boosts have anything to do with Ukemi at all, or at least there's no direct link to it in the code that I can find. It's mostly other things.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 pm

First post writeup redone, i'm keeping the micro spirit boosts out of it for the moment, they probably deserve an entirely separate testing environment given how they're largely early/midmatch. Thanks so much for the info and clarifications, Carl.

***

CF_Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:So do you recommend not using 0 Ukemi?


One more time, new data version.

I recommend using 0 ukemi at late if you want an edit to give less nearfalls, or to be more susceptible to a tapout (less spirit total to nuke back to zero). This makes them stop stockpiling ukemi spirit boost once they leave med, and the eventual 0 or 2.9 state kickout won't give them much staying power. They'll be reversing a lot more, however, so it's not a 'make this edit lose a lot' setting.


CF_Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:Is 100 Ukemi still pretty risky?


Yep! High late ukemi will very likely get you an ukemi proc on a finisher or high damage move where it could have been reversed but the edit decides to eat it instead. This is a double edged sword. It gives the edit the potential to rack up bonus spirit for when the ukemi boost happens either at state 0 or state 2.9. But the higher you set it, the more of a liability it is once the boost has been used. Once the ukemi boost happens, willfully eating another finisher will probably just mean the edit loses.

Late 100 could be great for setting up an edit to kick out a few times, and potentially, maaaaybe score a clutch victory. It's good for glass cannons like Mammal because once she gets the other edit down, she'll only really need one or two more finishing moves to stifle any potential comebacks.

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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:43 pm

soak314 wrote:First post writeup redone, i'm keeping the micro spirit boosts out of it for the moment, they probably deserve an entirely separate testing environment given how they're largely early/midmatch. Thanks so much for the info and clarifications, Carl.

***

CF_Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:So do you recommend not using 0 Ukemi?


One more time, new data version.

I recommend using 0 ukemi at late if you want an edit to give less nearfalls, or to be more susceptible to a tapout (less spirit total to nuke back to zero). This makes them stop stockpiling ukemi spirit boost once they leave med, and the eventual 0 or 2.9 state kickout won't give them much staying power. They'll be reversing a lot more, however, so it's not a 'make this edit lose a lot' setting.


CF_Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:Is 100 Ukemi still pretty risky?


Yep! High late ukemi will very likely get you an ukemi proc on a finisher or high damage move where it could have been reversed but the edit decides to eat it instead. This is a double edged sword. It gives the edit the potential to rack up bonus spirit for when the ukemi boost happens either at state 0 or state 2.9. But the higher you set it, the more of a liability it is once the boost has been used. Once the ukemi boost happens, willfully eating another finisher will probably just mean the edit loses.

Late 100 could be great for setting up an edit to kick out a few times, and potentially, maaaaybe score a clutch victory. It's good for glass cannons like Mammal because once she gets the other edit down, she'll only really need one or two more finishing moves to stifle any potential comebacks.


What I don't understand is why Spike allowed wrestlers to continue to attempt to stockpile ukemi after the boost had been used. It would be as simple as 3 lines of code to stop that from happening.

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soak314
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:19 am

Carlzilla wrote:What I don't understand is why Spike allowed wrestlers to continue to attempt to stockpile ukemi after the boost had been used. It would be as simple as 3 lines of code to stop that from happening.


Probably just to keep the con of less reversals consistent even after the boost. It'd be interesting to see how much better high ukemi edits make comebacks if post boost late ukemi was changed to zero as a general rule.

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Carlzilla
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Carlzilla » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:22 am

soak314 wrote:
Carlzilla wrote:What I don't understand is why Spike allowed wrestlers to continue to attempt to stockpile ukemi after the boost had been used. It would be as simple as 3 lines of code to stop that from happening.


Probably just to keep the con of less reversals consistent even after the boost. It'd be interesting to see how much better high ukemi edits make comebacks if post boost late ukemi was changed to zero as a general rule.


I may throw it in as an option...

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soak314
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby soak314 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 am

Footage of a failed 2.9 state boost added to main post.

Carlzilla wrote:I may throw it in as an option...


Awesome, I'll definitely be trying it if you do.

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Wonderland
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Re: The Ukemi Nearfall: a Primer

Postby Wonderland » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:18 pm

I imagine you in a lab coat swirling edits around in beakers as you science the shit outta the engine. Good stuff Soakles!
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