Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

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MBXfilms
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby MBXfilms » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:22 pm

orochigeese wrote:I wish that Spike had allowed us to chain a weapon shot into a pin via priority logic.


That or any control like style of swing attempted most and such.
But at that rate we need even more priority slots then... :twisted:

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IamAres
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby IamAres » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:27 am

heelsinc wrote:
Fukuro wrote:My guideline was as less weapons usage as possible with an slight corridor for heels to do so. I set the percentage from 1 to 3% but I guess I have to monitor the matches closely to see how it actually turns out.

Oh boy, Fire Pro logic always intimidates me. :shock:



You will almost never see weapon usage at that rate. Which is fine if that's what you're going for. Guys like New Jack and Sabu should have weapon usage crazy high. I'm pretty sure for thosr two in particular I set it to 100%.


Somewhere in the 2-3% range should work alright for like, old school babyfaces who "never" use weapons unless they get really mad. At that rate, you won't see it often, but you will eventually. Between 10 and 20 should be pretty solid for guys that you want to use them consistently, like older heels, or babyfaces in a "hardcore" environment. The really extreme garbage/hardcore guys, like a Mr. Pogo, had around 50% in the older games, and that would probably be what I would use at the maximum - even your most extreme hardcore dude has to have some room to throw punches and kicks and do some non-weapon brawling. Plus, with moves like brass knuckles, forks and sickles in the "normal" moves, they need to be doing some "wrestling" to get those in, too.

I just realized I used a lotta quotation marks up there, but I'm gonna chalk it up to putting Mr. Pogo and wrestling in the same paragraph.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:56 pm

Quick question, maybe?

What are the best personality settings for a corner grapple finisher?

I have 2 wrestlers with the exact same showmanship and Discretion - One has a corner Grapple Finisher - The other has a running corner Favourite that she can win from.

I must have simmed 20 games so far just these 2 - The wrestler that has the running corner favourite has won about 7 of these games with her running corner and succeeds in whipping the opponent into the corner regularly.

The other, with the corner grapple finsiher has succeeded in 0 wins with her finisher, and from what I've seen only 2 successful attempts at the move. This wrestler has more percentage to her Irish whip grapples as well, but struggles to whip into the corner.

No clue what's going on here...What wonderful hidden Fire Pro vagueness is at work here??

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:51 pm

samuraicake wrote:Quick question, maybe?

What are the best personality settings for a corner grapple finisher?



Given the same Discretion and Showmanship, that's sounding like a case of %'s in the corner logic + some rng shenanigans.

For the guy who finishes on it, set it crazy high. As in 100% at large. Sim him a few times and note how often he goes for it/is reversed out of it when he does. If you do this, you'll easily identify how often he actually gets windows to go into the corner finish. You'll see how early corner finishes can tend to come out from doing this, and can adjust your whip percent accordingly. Work under 100% Showmanship too, so you maximize attempts at tossing into corner.

You can also try setting Discretion to around 70%ish so the edit has a higher chance to drag to corner, then go into a grapple and do the toss (not whip) to corner. (this is one of prof voodoo's suggestions, so its called the voodoo corner technique).

Once you get that corner state going reliably, you can either choose to a.) lower the finisher percent and keep the high rate of getting tossed to corner or b.) keep the edit's 100% corner finish and tweak the rate at which the opponent is tossed to corner so it only happens super late. This'll involve taking whips and headlock drags down to 0% in med, and possibly toning down showmanship.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:23 pm

soak314 wrote:
samuraicake wrote:Quick question, maybe?

What are the best personality settings for a corner grapple finisher?



Given the same Discretion and Showmanship, that's sounding like a case of %'s in the corner logic + some rng shenanigans.

For the guy who finishes on it, set it crazy high. As in 100% at large. Sim him a few times and note how often he goes for it/is reversed out of it when he does. If you do this, you'll easily identify how often he actually gets windows to go into the corner finish. You'll see how early corner finishes can tend to come out from doing this, and can adjust your whip percent accordingly. Work under 100% Showmanship too, so you maximize attempts at tossing into corner.

You can also try setting Discretion to around 70%ish so the edit has a higher chance to drag to corner, then go into a grapple and do the toss (not whip) to corner. (this is one of prof voodoo's suggestions, so its called the voodoo corner technique).

Once you get that corner state going reliably, you can either choose to a.) lower the finisher percent and keep the high rate of getting tossed to corner or b.) keep the edit's 100% corner finish and tweak the rate at which the opponent is tossed to corner so it only happens super late. This'll involve taking whips and headlock drags down to 0% in med, and possibly toning down showmanship.


Ta for the info Soak - I thought higher Discretion meant edits would keep their oppoent towards the centre of the ring? I'll try upping it.

My issue isn't that my edit doesn't attempt the move - it's that they don't whip to the corner enough in the late game to even get to attempt it.
As I said, same discretion and showmanship as other edit but with high irish whip chances - and yet, just won't whip into corner - the maybe one time it happens it gets reversed, and that's a maybe one time per game. Compared with my other edit who has no trouble whipping into corner

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:36 pm

samuraicake wrote:My issue isn't that my edit doesn't attempt the move - it's that they don't whip to the corner enough in the late game to even get to attempt it.
As I said, same discretion and showmanship as other edit but with high irish whip chances - and yet, just won't whip into corner


If you haven't already, bump showmanship up to 100, I feel it's a good base to build corner finish guys off just so you have that chance to whip into corner per whip occurrence maximized.

As per discretion:

Carlzilla wrote:
The code in PART 2 says if the edit is above 66 in discretion, drag towards the center of the ring, if it's below 66 but above 30 drag them to the corner, and if it's below 30, just break the facelock all together.

Straight from the code, so you actually want 66 for corner drags, not 70. Lower than that and you're playing with the edit gassing.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:27 am

soak314 wrote:
samuraicake wrote:My issue isn't that my edit doesn't attempt the move - it's that they don't whip to the corner enough in the late game to even get to attempt it.
As I said, same discretion and showmanship as other edit but with high irish whip chances - and yet, just won't whip into corner


If you haven't already, bump showmanship up to 100, I feel it's a good base to build corner finish guys off just so you have that chance to whip into corner per whip occurrence maximized.

As per discretion:

Carlzilla wrote:
The code in PART 2 says if the edit is above 66 in discretion, drag towards the center of the ring, if it's below 66 but above 30 drag them to the corner, and if it's below 30, just break the facelock all together.

Straight from the code, so you actually want 66 for corner drags, not 70. Lower than that and you're playing with the edit gassing.


I seee, ta soak, this is good info - I'll give this a try, Spent so many months out, I'm relearning the vagueness of CPU logic again XD

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:16 am

No, still nothing -

8 sims with 66% discretion 100% showmanship - 41% irish whip front grapple on large - 30% whip back grapple on large - 70% to do the corner grapple one there.

Not one single successful attempt - only twice I remember have the opponent in the corner - must have simmed over 40 games, not one attempt has lead to a pin - very few attempts, 1 she stayed down herself, a couple of have been reversed, this is mind blowing.

The answer isn't to increase whip percentages, becase I have wreslters which much lower, do just fine, in the fact the person she's wrestled the last 40 times, has almost no issues with lower percentages.

There has to be something else at play here...Oo

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Fukuro » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:02 am

IamAres wrote:
heelsinc wrote:
Fukuro wrote:My guideline was as less weapons usage as possible with an slight corridor for heels to do so. I set the percentage from 1 to 3% but I guess I have to monitor the matches closely to see how it actually turns out.

Oh boy, Fire Pro logic always intimidates me. :shock:



You will almost never see weapon usage at that rate. Which is fine if that's what you're going for. Guys like New Jack and Sabu should have weapon usage crazy high. I'm pretty sure for thosr two in particular I set it to 100%.


Somewhere in the 2-3% range should work alright for like, old school babyfaces who "never" use weapons unless they get really mad. At that rate, you won't see it often, but you will eventually. Between 10 and 20 should be pretty solid for guys that you want to use them consistently, like older heels, or babyfaces in a "hardcore" environment. The really extreme garbage/hardcore guys, like a Mr. Pogo, had around 50% in the older games, and that would probably be what I would use at the maximum - even your most extreme hardcore dude has to have some room to throw punches and kicks and do some non-weapon brawling. Plus, with moves like brass knuckles, forks and sickles in the "normal" moves, they need to be doing some "wrestling" to get those in, too.

I just realized I used a lotta quotation marks up there, but I'm gonna chalk it up to putting Mr. Pogo and wrestling in the same paragraph.


Thank you mate, this is really helpful to set up some marks. Not sure if I'm going up to 20% for anyone, maybe Abdullah, but the frames of 2-3% and 4-10% are pretty appealing to me.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:21 pm

samuraicake wrote:No, still nothing


What corner move are you setting up? Bowgetta's had a very similar problem with one of his edits where the edit gets to corner, does the move, but keeps getting reversed out of it. It's not something I've run into personally, but the corner moves I have on my guys that I need coming out reliably are often one step affairs that don't run that extra layer of getting reversed.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:10 pm

soak314 wrote:
samuraicake wrote:No, still nothing


What corner move are you setting up? Bowgetta's had a very similar problem with one of his edits where the edit gets to corner, does the move, but keeps getting reversed out of it. It's not something I've run into personally, but the corner moves I have on my guys that I need coming out reliably are often one step affairs that don't run that extra layer of getting reversed.


Runup cutter.

I'm having problems with another edit of mine that I thought I had set up perfectly. I'm starting to wonder of there was an update that went out during my absense that effected things significantly - I had a wrestler that would do the avalanche powerbomb as his finisher, and hit at least one of these per game, I've simmed him 10 times, and not once.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby BlackLodgeMango » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:17 am

So is there any way to make it so apron moves happen more often with the AI? Such as the apron tiger suplex, the dragon screw, etc. I've never seen it once in my near 300 hours of playing FPWW.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:28 am

samuraicake wrote:Runup cutter.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.


There was a point i swear the reversal rates were upped a considerable percentage for mma and corner stuff in particular but I got nothing concrete to support that.

I do have one edit that works with the runup cutter, and while it's not hit every match it still happens about as reliably as I'd expect. Prior to that, he was built to hit goriconoclasm fairly frequently and that worked just fine.

Good luck figuring that out.

BlackLodgeMango wrote:So is there any way to make it so apron moves happen more often with the AI? Such as the apron tiger suplex, the dragon screw, etc. I've never seen it once in my near 300 hours of playing FPWW.


Default logic doesn't do em. There's a mod to turn them on, however. It works pretty swell.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby BlackLodgeMango » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:23 pm

soak314 wrote:
BlackLodgeMango wrote:So is there any way to make it so apron moves happen more often with the AI? Such as the apron tiger suplex, the dragon screw, etc. I've never seen it once in my near 300 hours of playing FPWW.


Default logic doesn't do em. There's a mod to turn them on, however. It works pretty swell.

Oh! Do you happen to know which mod does? I haven't found that one yet.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:14 pm

soak314 wrote:
samuraicake wrote:Runup cutter.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.


There was a point i swear the reversal rates were upped a considerable percentage for mma and corner stuff in particular but I got nothing concrete to support that.

I do have one edit that works with the runup cutter, and while it's not hit every match it still happens about as reliably as I'd expect. Prior to that, he was built to hit goriconoclasm fairly frequently and that worked just fine.

Good luck figuring that out.

BlackLodgeMango wrote:So is there any way to make it so apron moves happen more often with the AI? Such as the apron tiger suplex, the dragon screw, etc. I've never seen it once in my near 300 hours of playing FPWW.


Default logic doesn't do em. There's a mod to turn them on, however. It works pretty swell.


Aye, good luck indeed, thanks for taking the time to indulge me Soak, you're a gent. I also wanna say, your priority/cpu logic is so inventive, I stopped playing just before we got the 10 priority slots, seeing how you use yours is stunning, lots of good ideas for me here, just wanna give you a shout out.

Ofc, that does just mean, I gotta now go spend countless hours thinking of how I can fill those slots, if the uses suit my chars, and find inventive ways as youv've done to showcase an edits personality. A task I will find great joy in

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:10 pm

samuraicake wrote:Ofc, that does just mean, I gotta now go spend countless hours thinking of how I can fill those slots, if the uses suit my chars, and find inventive ways as youv've done to showcase an edits personality. A task I will find great joy in


Cheers man, thanks for the kind words. Soon enough you'll find those 12 prio slots run out pretty darn quick :lol:

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Level » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:28 pm

samuraicake wrote:
soak314 wrote:
samuraicake wrote:No, still nothing


What corner move are you setting up? Bowgetta's had a very similar problem with one of his edits where the edit gets to corner, does the move, but keeps getting reversed out of it. It's not something I've run into personally, but the corner moves I have on my guys that I need coming out reliably are often one step affairs that don't run that extra layer of getting reversed.


Runup cutter.

I'm having problems with another edit of mine that I thought I had set up perfectly. I'm starting to wonder of there was an update that went out during my absense that effected things significantly - I had a wrestler that would do the avalanche powerbomb as his finisher, and hit at least one of these per game, I've simmed him 10 times, and not once.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.


What are the fight and return style and the discretion/showmanship of the opponent(s)?
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:54 pm

Level wrote:
samuraicake wrote:
soak314 wrote:
What corner move are you setting up? Bowgetta's had a very similar problem with one of his edits where the edit gets to corner, does the move, but keeps getting reversed out of it. It's not something I've run into personally, but the corner moves I have on my guys that I need coming out reliably are often one step affairs that don't run that extra layer of getting reversed.


Runup cutter.

I'm having problems with another edit of mine that I thought I had set up perfectly. I'm starting to wonder of there was an update that went out during my absense that effected things significantly - I had a wrestler that would do the avalanche powerbomb as his finisher, and hit at least one of these per game, I've simmed him 10 times, and not once.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.


What are the fight and return style and the discretion/showmanship of the opponent(s)?


The opponent I simmed her against had Vicious for both Fight/Return Style - 70/30 showmanship/Discretion - My wrestlers Fight style was Junior

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Wonderland » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:14 pm

Why sim against just one opponent? Vary that shit up and chances are, results will vary as well
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Level » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:17 pm

samuraicake wrote:
Level wrote:
samuraicake wrote:
Runup cutter.

I'm having problems with another edit of mine that I thought I had set up perfectly. I'm starting to wonder of there was an update that went out during my absense that effected things significantly - I had a wrestler that would do the avalanche powerbomb as his finisher, and hit at least one of these per game, I've simmed him 10 times, and not once.

I doubt this could be RNG, something has changed that I'm not aware of - I'll keep tweaking but this is getting silly now.


What are the fight and return style and the discretion/showmanship of the opponent(s)?


The opponent I simmed her against had Vicious for both Fight/Return Style - 70/30 showmanship/Discretion - My wrestlers Fight style was Junior


Yeah. I can't recall 100% but I thought the Vicious style was for MMA style edits. If so, I'm almost certain that would affect that move taking place.

Wonderland wrote:Why sim against just one opponent? Vary that shit up and chances are, results will vary as well


Listen to the Wonderland Rubberband Man. Switch it up. I bet if you have the edit face off against a Junior, Lucha, Or American edit you'll be more likely to see it.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby DakkoN » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:24 pm

Vicious is a mma/prowres hybrid. It was made for one person, Inoki. It actually runs the ropes unlike the actual MMA styles that always stop on the ropes.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby samuraicake » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:49 pm

DakkoN wrote:Vicious is a mma/prowres hybrid. It was made for one person, Inoki. It actually runs the ropes unlike the actual MMA styles that always stop on the ropes.


Whaaaaaaat - are you cereal? So much pain because I failed to realise, this is mega helpful. Any other Fighting Styles I should stay away from, that don't pair well with wrestling...What are the MMA ones?


Wonderland wrote:Why sim against just one opponent? Vary that shit up and chances are, results will vary as well


Yes Wonderdaddy - I was mainly using just those 2 because I had jsut made them both and thought it might be useful - I am indeed a fool

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:15 pm

samuraicake wrote:Whaaaaaaat - are you cereal? So much pain because I failed to realise, this is mega helpful. Any other Fighting Styles I should stay away from, that don't pair well with wrestling...What are the MMA ones?

Fighter, Shooter, and Grappler will stifle whips 100% of the time.

Ground and Wrestler will stifle them at a lesser rate, but will still happen occasionally.

The rest have a pretty low chance to stifle whips and can be used at will.

If you're making an "MMA"-type wrestler (Lesnar and Rousey, for example) or a Strong Style wrestler, then Vicious should cover them.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby KingMob4313 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 pm

Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:Fighter, Shooter, and Grappler will stifle whips 100% of the time.

Ground and Wrestler will stifle them at a lesser rate, but will still happen occasionally.

The rest have a pretty low chance to stifle whips and can be used at will.

If you're making an "MMA"-type wrestler (Lesnar and Rousey, for example) or a Strong Style wrestler, then Vicious should cover them.


Fighters are like Cro Cop and for those who are older: Masaake Satake and Dick Vrij.

Shooters are the variety of shooters from shoot style while DOING Shootstyle: Masa Funaki, Kiyoshi Tamura.

Grapplers are almost all purely BJJ guys: The Gracie family and so on.

Ground is about 3 wrestlers in the world: Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Zack Sabre Jr, and Negro Navarro (I think that's his name). That's about it, I can't find another.

Wrestler are the amateur wrestler types, like Jeff Cobb, Early Kurt Angle and so on.

Vicious would be Inoki and Shibata natively, or any of the MMA turned wrestlers who work within the standard pro wrestling and finish with Subs (generally): Ken Shamrock in the WWE, Rousey, Baszler, Riddle, and Lesnar are great examples.


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