Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby craziej2k » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:42 pm

Mauzer33 wrote:I have question regarding total skill points. Lets say I have an edit that has a total of 170 vs another with 230. Does the total skill point number really make a difference in a match, or does it ultimately come down to each individual edit's logic, moves and other general parameters? Would the 230 edit completely squash the 170 edit everytime?



I think it would depend on where the skill points were put, say if the edit with 230 had 10 for punch offense and has a lot of moves that used that parameter then he would have a big advantage. Logic settings would play a big part as well, if he was set up to punish opponents and not go for the pin there's always a chance the 170 might be able to crit! him or wear him down over time.

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soak314
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:44 am

Mauzer33 wrote:I have question regarding total skill points. Lets say I have an edit that has a total of 170 vs another with 230. Does the total skill point number really make a difference in a match, or does it ultimately come down to each individual edit's logic, moves and other general parameters? Would the 230 edit completely squash the 170 edit everytime?



It'll depend much more on the logic than anything else. A 50 point edit with 10 in punch that 100% does a punch that 100% goes into a pin will very likely beat a 230 pointer that's built regularly.

But that's not an excuse to jack up points. Always keep in mind wondy's point in the first post: parameters aren't RPG stats, they're machine numbers that determine pacing.

And not every edit needs a special skill/high part defenses/high movespeed/the ability to runup the turnbuckles. Those can add a lot more points than they're ultimately worth.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:06 am

Almost every one of my highflyer/luchador(a) edits has point bloat because of how many points the higher Movement Speed options cost. Maximum Movement Speed, plus having the ability to Run-Up (Springboard Dives) is something like 30 points altogether. An average edit on my roster (before Skills are taken into account) will be roughly 130 to 140 points. With Skills applied, they can easily end up at 170 to 200 points.

High Movement Speed, plus Run-Up, plus a Tier-3 skill will get you closer to 60 points spent, and that doesn't include things like Recovery Rates.

Parameters Moveset, and Logic will largely be the things that make or break the edit depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby senator » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 pm

soak314 wrote:
Mauzer33 wrote:I have question regarding total skill points. Lets say I have an edit that has a total of 170 vs another with 230. Does the total skill point number really make a difference in a match, or does it ultimately come down to each individual edit's logic, moves and other general parameters? Would the 230 edit completely squash the 170 edit everytime?



It'll depend much more on the logic than anything else. A 50 point edit with 10 in punch that 100% does a punch that 100% goes into a pin will very likely beat a 230 pointer that's built regularly.

But that's not an excuse to jack up points. Always keep in mind wondy's point in the first post: parameters aren't RPG stats, they're machine numbers that determine pacing.

And not every edit needs a special skill/high part defenses/high movespeed/the ability to runup the turnbuckles. Those can add a lot more points than they're ultimately worth.


And CRITICAL types can add on more useless points than about anything else. Stick an ineffective CRITICAL on an edit that doesn't get a lot of mileage out of it, and you've thrown thirty points away that would be much better spent elsewhere if you're going for maximum competitiveness.
Last edited by senator on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:32 pm

Yep.

Submission Critical is pretty much useless for standard Pro Wrestling types.

For edits that have a submission finisher, but it doesn't fall into the "MMA"-ish category, I set them to Finisher Crit.
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Severla 2.0
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Severla 2.0 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:54 am

Id vote most of the non-finisher crits aren't very 'pro-wrestling' but I know some people get good mileage from flash-pin Tech crits.

I could see Power being on a powerhouse built to be 'too strong for his own good' but may get heat if he's got more moves that could crit than you could count on one hand.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Mauzer33 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:29 am

Thanks everyone for the responses.

From everything I read about non-finisher critical, I feel like the only ones I would use are power and tech since I mainly want wrestling type edits.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby unimportantguy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:54 am

Severla 2.0 wrote:Id vote most of the non-finisher crits aren't very 'pro-wrestling' but I know some people get good mileage from flash-pin Tech crits.

I could see Power being on a powerhouse built to be 'too strong for his own good' but may get heat if he's got more moves that could crit than you could count on one hand.

I specifically use Power crit for botch machines myself. If a dude is sloppy and unsafe and prone to accidentally (not intentionally) injuring people, he gets Power crit.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:22 am

unimportantguy wrote:
Severla 2.0 wrote:Id vote most of the non-finisher crits aren't very 'pro-wrestling' but I know some people get good mileage from flash-pin Tech crits.

I could see Power being on a powerhouse built to be 'too strong for his own good' but may get heat if he's got more moves that could crit than you could count on one hand.

I specifically use Power crit for botch machines myself. If a dude is sloppy and unsafe and prone to accidentally (not intentionally) injuring people, he gets Power crit.



Crits as botches is the best way to interpret them. It makes the most sense visually, and I assume once management of the ring rolls around, that's how they'll be treated mechanically as well. The only two edits I have rocking critical skills have them because they're inexperienced/sloppy and could potentially botch on most of their executions.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Invader3K » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:29 am

Heres a random question I was thinking ahout: Is there a recommended move rating for a finisher? Like should it be at least a B or A rated move for an Edit to it fairly effectively?

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby DakkoN » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:37 am

Invader3K wrote:Heres a random question I was thinking ahout: Is there a recommended move rating for a finisher? Like should it be at least a B or A rated move for an Edit to it fairly effectively?


The only thing affinity effects is how much breath is consumed when using the move.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby MBXfilms » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:58 pm

DakkoN wrote:
Invader3K wrote:Heres a random question I was thinking ahout: Is there a recommended move rating for a finisher? Like should it be at least a B or A rated move for an Edit to it fairly effectively?


The only thing affinity effects is how much breath is consumed when using the move.


So would it be important for a move that knocks down the user also so they can get up to pin or is that another stat like recovery or something?
Or would low breath keep them down and unable to pin?

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:06 pm

If the attacker runs out of Stamina after their finishing move, they won't be able to follow up immediately.

As long as your edit doesn't have too many D and E moves in their moveset, they should be fine, assuming they have High Breathing to counter the constant winding.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby LankyLefty17 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:19 pm

Question for high flying edit makers:

When setting the "Opponent Outside" (I'm not at the game atm, but the logic title is something like that), I have the "Do Nothing" stat set to zero and most of the logic set to outside dives. However those edits routinely will move to the center of the ring after throwing their opponent out of the ring. Are their other factors that impact whether an edit will perform an outside dive, such as breath or opponent position?

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Reckless101 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:21 pm

LankyLefty17 wrote:Question for high flying edit makers:

When setting the "Opponent Outside" (I'm not at the game atm, but the logic title is something like that), I have the "Do Nothing" stat set to zero and most of the logic set to outside dives. However those edits routinely will move to the center of the ring after throwing their opponent out of the ring. Are their other factors that impact whether an edit will perform an outside dive, such as breath or opponent position?


Sometimes the opposing edit won't be stunned enough for the high flyer edit to do a dive. The AI would recognize this before we would and will then stand in the center of the ring. So if you want that high-flying/spot monkey type edit, you're doing it right by having "Do Nothing" at 0 and set all the points to the dive spots. It's just the opponent won't be stunned enough for the edit attempting the dive.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Dawnbr3ak3r » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:49 pm

The attacker is likely out of breath, the opponent isn't stunned long enough for the move to happen as previously mentioned, or the opponent isn't in good enough position for a dive to connect properly - If they're too close to the post, specifically Running Dives won't happen. Otherwise, make sure you're setting Standing Dives to be executed and not Downstate Dives. Downstate Dives don't work - This is a game design issue, and not anything to do with the edits themselves.
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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby LankyLefty17 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:04 pm

Reckless101 wrote:Sometimes the opposing edit won't be stunned enough for the high flyer edit to do a dive. The AI would recognize this before we would and will then stand in the center of the ring. So if you want that high-flying/spot monkey type edit, you're doing it right by having "Do Nothing" at 0 and set all the points to the dive spots. It's just the opponent won't be stunned enough for the edit attempting the dive.


Dawnbr3ak3r wrote:The attacker is likely out of breath, the opponent isn't stunned long enough for the move to happen as previously mentioned, or the opponent isn't in good enough position for a dive to connect properly - If they're too close to the post, specifically Running Dives won't happen. Otherwise, make sure you're setting Standing Dives to be executed and not Downstate Dives. Downstate Dives don't work - This is a game design issue, and not anything to do with the edits themselves.


Thanks guys, this confirms some of what I suspected. I'll have to go back and look at the dives I have assigned.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby MBXfilms » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:53 pm

I've never seen too many dives to the outside in a match that's for sure. I wish there was a better set up for it. I've tried giving body slams and suplex but that's very situational if they are close enough to be throwing them out with those moves.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Fukuro » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:22 pm

Just a quick and maybe a utterly stupid question: does the weapons percentage indicates the change of actually using a weapon? So if I set the figure at 3% there is only a 3% chance of a weapon being used?

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby soak314 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:28 pm

Fukuro wrote:Just a quick and maybe a utterly stupid question: does the weapons percentage indicates the change of actually using a weapon? So if I set the figure at 3% there is only a 3% chance of a weapon being used?


For weapons on the floor, It's the chance an edit willl go for weapon use *given the opportunity*.

Weapons are picked up off the floor given the opponent is going to stay down long enough for the logic to safely go to the weapon and pick it up. So say the move with a long downtime is bodyslam, an edit with 3% weapon use will go for a pick-up 3% of the time after a bodyslam puts the opponent into the appropriate down state.

I think this happens off both SML/MED and LRG slot moves as the edit will headpickup after getting a weapon, then attempt a swing. If the triggering move was LRG slot, the opponent will be dazed and the weapon attack is going to be more likely to succeed

They're pulled from under the mat on a much more general rate, so I think it's pretty safe to say an edit with 100% weapon use will pull a weapon out almost every time they are sent or go outside. This situation might be limited by an edits outside time logic, one that doesn't stay out at all might be less inclined to grab a weapon on the way back.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Fukuro » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:08 pm

soak314 wrote:For weapons on the floor, It's the chance an edit willl go for weapon use *given the opportunity*.

Weapons are picked up off the floor given the opponent is going to stay down long enough for the logic to safely go to the weapon and pick it up. So say the move with a long downtime is bodyslam, an edit with 3% weapon use will go for a pick-up 3% of the time after a bodyslam puts the opponent into the appropriate down state.

I think this happens off both SML/MED and LRG slot moves as the edit will headpickup after getting a weapon, then attempt a swing. If the triggering move was LRG slot, the opponent will be dazed and the weapon attack is going to be more likely to succeed

They're pulled from under the mat on a much more general rate, so I think it's pretty safe to say an edit with 100% weapon use will pull a weapon out almost every time they are sent or go outside. This situation might be limited by an edits outside time logic, one that doesn't stay out at all might be less inclined to grab a weapon on the way back.


Thank you soak314, the mechanic is much more nuanced than expected. Yet we are talking Fire Pro so... :D

My guideline was as less weapons usage as possible with an slight corridor for heels to do so. I set the percentage from 1 to 3% but I guess I have to monitor the matches closely to see how it actually turns out.

Oh boy, Fire Pro logic always intimidates me. :shock:

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby heelsinc » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:42 pm

Fukuro wrote:
soak314 wrote:For weapons on the floor, It's the chance an edit willl go for weapon use *given the opportunity*.

Weapons are picked up off the floor given the opponent is going to stay down long enough for the logic to safely go to the weapon and pick it up. So say the move with a long downtime is bodyslam, an edit with 3% weapon use will go for a pick-up 3% of the time after a bodyslam puts the opponent into the appropriate down state.

I think this happens off both SML/MED and LRG slot moves as the edit will headpickup after getting a weapon, then attempt a swing. If the triggering move was LRG slot, the opponent will be dazed and the weapon attack is going to be more likely to succeed

They're pulled from under the mat on a much more general rate, so I think it's pretty safe to say an edit with 100% weapon use will pull a weapon out almost every time they are sent or go outside. This situation might be limited by an edits outside time logic, one that doesn't stay out at all might be less inclined to grab a weapon on the way back.


Thank you soak314, the mechanic is much more nuanced than expected. Yet we are talking Fire Pro so... :D

My guideline was as less weapons usage as possible with an slight corridor for heels to do so. I set the percentage from 1 to 3% but I guess I have to monitor the matches closely to see how it actually turns out.

Oh boy, Fire Pro logic always intimidates me. :shock:



You will almost never see weapon usage at that rate. Which is fine if that's what you're going for. Guys like New Jack and Sabu should have weapon usage crazy high. I'm pretty sure for thosr two in particular I set it to 100%.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby Fukuro » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 pm

heelsinc wrote:You will almost never see weapon usage at that rate. Which is fine if that's what you're going for. Guys like New Jack and Sabu should have weapon usage crazy high. I'm pretty sure for thosr two in particular I set it to 100%.


As crazy it might sound this is completely intended. If a foreign object is used at one point, it should be a major thing. But to be honest, I'm entirely content with no weapon usage at all.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby heelsinc » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 pm

Fukuro wrote:
heelsinc wrote:You will almost never see weapon usage at that rate. Which is fine if that's what you're going for. Guys like New Jack and Sabu should have weapon usage crazy high. I'm pretty sure for thosr two in particular I set it to 100%.


As crazy it might sound this is completely intended. If a foreign object is used at one point, it should be a major thing. But to be honest, I'm entirely content with no weapon usage at all.


I hear ya and am totally on board with what your going for. If you want that old school weapons actually mean something vibe you're gonna get it with what you've done.

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Re: Basic Edit-Making Tips and Tricks

Postby orochigeese » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:44 am

I wish that Spike had allowed us to chain a weapon shot into a pin via priority logic.


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