Broadening our Horizons

The successor of collaborative E-fedding.
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C-Drive
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:11 am

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What happens when I play around with logos when there isn't even an official name - and I'm not even a big fan of the HORIZON name outside of the show naming scheme ease-of-use.
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senator
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby senator » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:46 am

Now that looks nice. I vote that C-Drive makes the official logo, no matter what the name ends up being.

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:03 am

senator wrote:Now that looks nice. I vote that C-Drive makes the official logo, no matter what the name ends up being.


Thanks, senator!
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Jason Blackhart » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:13 am

BTW, if Geese were here, he'd have told you that FPJ was already used as my own fed's name. :P

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby SluggBugg » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:01 am

That logo looks AWESOME!
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:15 am

Awesome logo, C. Is it weird that I want to hug that logo?
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Severla 2.0
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Severla 2.0 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:57 am

I was gonna offer up 'Arenaverse' but Carl beat me to it. I like the idea of noting it a whole fictional universe that runs together.

I also applaud the idea of tournaments instead of straight up titles for larger scale, multi-promotion events.

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby TheHandsomeLuchadore » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:44 pm

As long as we keep the E-Fed section like it is...er, for promotions not affiliated with *Name Not Final*...

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Re: Name Suggestions

Postby fullMETAL » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:24 pm

C-Drive wrote:FireProJect the mythical FPJ now come to life.

C-Drive wrote:Fire Pro Wrestling Arena Alliance (FPWAA)

I agree with either of these. :)

(My own suggestion) - "Fire Pro Wrestling RISE"
(RISE would stand for "Resurrection International Sports Entertainment" or just "R * International Sports Entertainment")
It's got like a multiple meaning (specifically the R): "R" as in Fire Pro RETURNS, also "Rise" like a phoenix from the ashes, "Resurrection" from the dead (also like a phoenix), and as a new beginning "R" as in "Renaissance" (which is what my actual company name is), AND it's a cool IWGP type acronym for worldwide action and alliances!
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:15 am

TheHandsomeLuchadore wrote:As long as we keep the E-Fed section like it is...er, for promotions not affiliated with *Name Not Final*...


That's the plan.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:54 am

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:24 am

Name voting threads are up:

Name Voting - "Alliance" Options
Name Voting - "Other" Options
Name Voting - "Horizon and Beyond" Options

Voting is taking place across three threads with nine options a piece. Be sure to vote in all three if you like. Top three popular options from all three threads will be compiled together in a final voting thread featuring the "final nine".
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:53 am

I had a duplicate entry in the "Alliance" Options thread, and changing the poll reset the votes, so if you already voted there, please re-do your vote.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby blackomen13 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:26 pm

in my opinion I think the name should involve the name of the site in some way. With online features FP-World is going to be many times bigger than FPR, and im betting that new efeds and sites are going to pop up all over, and a lot of these basic arent really going to stand out at all

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:42 pm

blackomen13 wrote:in my opinion I think the name should involve the name of the site in some way. With online features FP-World is going to be many times bigger than FPR, and im betting that new efeds and sites are going to pop up all over, and a lot of these basic arent really going to stand out at all


I agree. Which is why my favorite choice has Arena in the title.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:55 pm

Whatever the choice ends up being, I'll make a variation of the "Horizon" logo for it.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:32 pm

C-Drive wrote:Whatever the choice ends up being, I'll make a variation of the "Horizon" logo for it.


Or... if we end up not using the current logo, you'll let me use it for something else? ;)
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby fullMETAL » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Zealot wrote:We could do like an E-Fed Universal Championship and maybe a set of tag belts? Then, there could be a thread(s) that keep track of their history. Heck, our very own actual professional belt designer fullMETAL could make the belt(s) that can be used as the placeholder.

Fixed that for you. ;)

GTW wrote:Anybody having a Womens championship?

We actually have the Joshivision division, inactive as it may be.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Zealot » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:08 pm

That is actually true now that I think about it.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:43 pm

So if it ends up being "FPW Horizon", will it become Joshirizon?

:lol:
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby C-Drive » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:05 pm

If you have anymore name suggestions, get over to the Name Suggestion thread and add it on. Possibly will be a fourth voting thread, with one top winner, getting into the finalist voting:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=850&p=27709#p27709
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Sooj » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:59 am

I like that logo. I really do.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby orochigeese » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:14 pm

I think we should go back to discussing the parameters of the project. This isn't just my project, but these are my opinions. You guys are free to take them into account or not. If not, that's fine. My own shows under this Project will be run my way. I have no say, nor should I, in what other people do with their shows. And I'm not trying to push this vision of mine but merely explain why I think this is the way to go.

The way I pitched this project (after attempting to reform FPCPP around it but then backing away from that) was as follows: This isn't an e-fed. It's a shared venue space with a shared roster pool.

I see this as a shared Arena/Colosseum with the same gladiators available but with different producers and resulting shows. The connections between the shows are what we individually want them to be. There is no continuity requirement whatsoever between shows that any producer runs or in acknowledging what other people have done. (That would have worked, until the discussion of Titles.)

There would be one large pool of edits available for us all to choose from. Any show that was created did not have to have any association with that producer's existing e-feds. Territories are not a required concept in this project as I see it. These are user-generated shows rather than promotional shows.

We already have an e-fed forum for promotions and that is not dismantled by this project. If I ran a show under this new project, it could but does not have to relate to UBL or any another fed of mine. As long as I got the consent of the edits I wanted to use, I'm set to create any kind of show with any kind of affiliation. I don't need any official territory backing of the show. It's my show with edits from a pool. It's super easy to create shows this way. When I run a show under this project, it doesn't have to have a territory or a "brand name". I could, if I want, run the show under an existing brand or promotion I've created like UBL or Matsuki Mobile or Destiny.

Or I could create a random show called "AVAST!" (that has no connection to anything I've done before) then get the consent of handlers to use their edits on that show and I'm off to the races. Nothing more is needed. Nothing more should be needed or else we run the risk of limiting our creative energies and freedom to just produce stuff when we want and positively work together in a fun, mostly free way, to create entertaining content.

The key here, the whole intention of this from my perspective, was to free ourselves up from the cooperation confines that many of us have been stuck in, so that we could work with each other on any given show at any time we wanted. I wanted to make this easier than FPCPP even in the "open source" era. I want to create a formula for a venue that allows us all to just spur of the moment say: "This idea intrigues me" and then just a few PM's of consent later, a show is in production.

All of the FPCPP projects that have gotten attention (and were therefore successful) over the past few months ran on the idea of "let's just run a show now and see who wants to be involved." It worked because people didn't have to follow backstory if they didn't want to, they could just throw their edits in and enjoy things. It didn't matter if their edits were involved in other e-feds at the time, they weren't limited by that.

That means that we should not limit ourselves by having so many "acknowledged promotion rules" but rather just simple rules of doing business with each other from a handler perspective.



And now I turn to the idea of Championships for the entire Project.

Having established "Project-wide" Titles really muddy things up and will ultimately turn this into FPCPP 2.0 (at best) or destroy the project (at worst). Titles create a TON of necessary continuity and rules that run against having a dynamic environment where people can just run shows with each other's edits (with consent).

Just the mere discussion of Titles have totally changed the focus from freely running shows with easy cooperation to how people will compete for Titles. The entire dynamic of the discussion changed once Titles were brought up. Let me explain how Titles will distort this project.

Once Titles are established, they will be the focal point of the Project by definition. They have to be. A professional wrestling title shouldn't exist and NOT be a focal point of attention. If Titles exist, most handlers will want their edits to vye for the Titles (in either direct title matches or title division contendership) and many Show creators will also want to understandably feature the Title and the Champion to get their show more attention and relevance.

The freedom to just create a show is now going to be replaced by the requirement of having to coordinate the Title situation so that we don't end up with a situation where Edit A loses a Title to Edit B on my show one day after Edit A lost that same Title to Edit C on someone else's show cause coordination didn't work. Even if it did work, as someone who came from the hellmouth of the latter days of the Booking Team - this kind of negotiation and planning ends up sapping creativity more than anything else I've seen in the e-fed world. I've had to perform mouth to "protrusion" on Omen's creativity glands (...at least, that's what he called them... :? ) on numerous occasions after a 2 week discussion of the finer points of how one edit will defend their Title on multiple shows. (the fact the the handler of the edit had long gone missing didn't help matters...) The FPCPP Booking Forum is thankfully dead (the Arena wipe deserves some credit) but man, this kind of Title synchronization dance really hurt the FPCPP and would destroy a new project that didn't have the same emotional investment that the FPCPP did, nor a core central booking team to figure all this stuff out.

Having one "Horizon World Championship" would warp the entire project, the goals and the negotiations. All of the free-form fun that we had planned in just creating shows would be de-emphasized in favor of people who want this to be a more traditional e-fed with Titles to shoot for and the necessary structure and coordination in place to see to it that it all worked fairly smoothly.

Now, obviously some of us handlers and show producers are free to ignore this. I can run my own "KAPUT!" shows that ignore the Titles entirely. But I want this project to survive in the long term. Even if my shows are un & touched by this, I think the overall enthusiasm for the creative freedom for this project will start to dampen once the heavy focus and administrative negotiation of Titles are weighed across it's newly beating heart.

Does this mean Geese wants to outlaw gold? BUT ITS GOLD!!! BAH GAWD ROOTY TOODY ITS GOLD!

None of my doomsday-saying happens if people just have their own individual ("local" rather than "global") "territory" titles or tournaments. If Makar runs a Super Junior Tournament Cup/Title this year, there is no confusion if someone else runs their own tournament (Juniors or otherwise). There's also no confusion if show runners have defenses of existing Titles from their feds...as long as the Champion handler doesn't overbook their Champion (and to be fair this opportunity existed over the past 10-15 years but rarely if ever happened).

I'm even in support of people creating their own territories or brands that they consistently run and feature their own Title. That's fine. Only one producer and edit handler (sometimes they could be the same person) is responsible for keeping that continuity. Get your Title over by having awesome matches, you'll get people watching and cheering for that Title, you'll have a relevant and entertaining show. I'm 100% support of that.

But having "Global Titles" - Titles native to the Project meant to be a target for everyone - means that they will become both the focal point of this project and the red tape that basically plagued the FPCPP booking team at the end.

You guys are free to do it. I quietly voted but mainly stayed out of the naming debate cause I didn't care. "FPCPP" was the stupidest name for the best e-promotion I've ever been in. We can call this new project "Making Cotton Candy" and I'd proudly tattoo the name in my eyeballs if it works well. "A rose by any other name," after all. If a chosen name (besides a clearly offensive one like "Fire Pro Avatar") would stop or limit someone from taking part in this, then I think that's addition by subtraction for all of us.

But Project-shared Titles - that's a concept with real effects. It's a concept that people will have to put in a ton of time just to keep the concept working functionally amongst a project meant to have various shows by various show producers with various edits. And that coordination time is going to hurt the creativity of the project for people even if no mistakes are made. You're all welcome to try. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:47 pm

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I agree with what you said, Geese. Instead of titles we could hold yearly tournaments, like a year-end tournament called BRAGGING RIGHTS where the participants are the champions of all the e-feds that are housed here, both singles and tag teams. Maybe it could have one tournament for the major belt holders, like World and Tag Team, and another for the lesser belt holders, like TV, intercontinental, etc. The winners of these tournaments wouldn't receive an actual belt, but they will receive credit for winning.

The other idea I have is running a big show called WRESTLE WEEK that would span over the course of one week, where several e-feds contribute with matches, and if they have any title matches they could have it in that event. There could be inter-promotional showcase matches as well as a match between guys from the same e-fed a holder might want to throw in. The goal of this event would be to showcase edits from all over our universe.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby orochigeese » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:46 pm

That image is hypnotic :lol:

Took me 4 tries to actually read your text and get beyond the image, haha :D

I'm a huge supporter of the core idea behind WRESTLE WEEK. Any kind of voluntary inclusion "Showcase of Champions" would work well for the individual local Champions of each territory that emerges.

I also really like the idea of a year-end tournament for Champions or anyone who wants to be involved. There's no continuity issues with one big tournament that is like a G1 or King of the Ring where you win the tournament, get the honor, but you don't get any specific Championship to defend.

Individual fed owners could then, if they want, add their own rewards for the winner of that tournament. So for example, a territory of mine in the project can promise a shot at any of my territory titles for the person who wins the year-end tournament whereas someone else could promise another reward in their territory. But we'd leave it up to the individual territories if they wanted to do anything with it.

I actually think that emphasizing local titles end up making people work harder to make Championships mean more which, in turn, often makes those Championships mean more. With a World Title, that automatically has credibility that hasn't necessarily been earned or sustained. It can become a crutch. Whereas if an individual territory title becomes over with the fans, you know it was earned based on the quality of the matches and the booking. It earned its status rather than just being called a World Title and being assumed important.

That was one concept I was trying to emphasize in the "open source" FPCPP era. Title superiority/legitimacy isn't conferred by the name or scope of the title but by how it's defended and showcased. The Grand Prix Title (the TV Title) could get over just as much as the World Title with the right kind of booking, just as RVD got the ECW TV Title over as much as Rhyno's World Title in ECW.

With this project, we all have a chance to start on equal footing. That means no official project ownership or endorsement of global Titles. Instead, fans are free to make of the local territory titles (if a territory even wants titles) what they want in regards to importance and entertainment. Champions can't lean on the idea of a "World Title" automatically meaning the most when a scrappy territory books their local title incredibly well. So we measure this by (admittedly subjective) quality rather than by name while, even importantly, keeping away the cooperation problems that would definitely arise if every territory shared a set of global-style Titles.

I think back to DPT's Siberian Title and how fun that was and how fitting that would be for a project like this. A territory makes a Title, people find it entertaining, and that territory keeps it going if it wants to. Meanwhile, the same handler that made that territory could book another show at any time, completely independent of the territory, just because they want to. None of that is prevented by having a Global Title, of course.

It's just that a Global Title will be the center of attention for a number of handlers, show producers, and fans and I think that could work to the detriment of the project in focus but also in coordination. But again, that's just my view. We haven't tried this yet. Maybe things would work out differently. I hope people at least consider what I'm saying here even if they feel differently.

I'm certainly going to be a part of this project even if there are Global titles. I'll just run my territory or shows the way I want with my own Title design: defending the UBL titles occasionally on Project shows and running random tournaments with newly (and perhaps annually or perhaps not) created Cups/Trophies as the goal.

As long as there is no requirement for territories to acknowledge or defend the global titles (which would be completely against the initial spirit of openness for this project), I think the project can definitely accommodate global titles even if it has the potential to cause confusion. But if people really want those global titles involved as goals to motivate them to submit their edits or run shows, it's not my right to say otherwise. It's just my right to do my shows my way and share my views on the topic.


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