Broadening our Horizons

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Makar17
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Wed May 03, 2017 2:27 pm

bfx wrote:As for the titles questions, this new entity could still have championship titles ( Single HW, Single CW, Tag Team, Trios etc ) it could be competed either just like any normal title or we could have it be competed exclusively by each feds champions only. Imagine we could have a special champions only tournament once every year. Our very own Champions League so to speak. The winner would be recognised both as his fed's champion as well as the new entity's champion. As long as he is champion of his fed that is.


How would you determine who the title contenders are?
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby bfx » Wed May 03, 2017 6:18 pm

This is how I would do it. I will use FPCPP as the IWGP of this example.

Let's say we have 15 Feds in the Alliance and each fed would have their own WORLD or MAIN Champion. Let's say from JAN - OCT of the year, each fed are free to determine whoever their champion is / are. NOV would be end of the season for all the feds and all the champions, 15 champions representing their own fed, are entered into a play off scenario where all the champions will compete against each other where the winner will be crown the FPCPP / IWGP Champions, the champion of champions. This title and champion will be recognised all through the year or until he loses his fed's title which also forces him to relinquish the FPCPP title as the main rule / gimmick of the title is it can only be held by a champion.

During JAN-OCT period we could also have some special in season tournament and give the winner some #1 contendership for the FPCPP / IWGP title or a Money in the bank type of deal. This tournament winner will face the FPCPP / IWGP champion for not only the FPCPP / IWGP title, it will also be for the fed's title.

The idea is for all the feds be connected by the alliance and have this competitive spirit between the feds and yet are still free to do their own thing without worrying about this FPCPP / IWGP alliance.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Thu May 04, 2017 2:54 am

I fear that with this format some of the fed owners could make their champion stay champion for the sake of keeping the alliance title. A year end tournament for fed champions has already been suggested, so you're not far behind.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby bfx » Thu May 04, 2017 7:28 am

Makar17 wrote:I fear that with this format some of the fed owners could make their champion stay champion for the sake of keeping the alliance title.


That is if we are treating this whole e-fed alliance as a true compettition instead of for entertainment sake. I see every title, fed or alliance are just storytelling tools. Anyway I'm glad I'm not that way off. :mrgreen:
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Love Wilcox » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:56 pm

I think something like what BFX is proposing could work really well if we apply some proper controls and limits.

Let's say we have a "Champions Tournament" with a minimum of 12 entrants (hopefully more). The winner is crowned the champ of course and the next 11 runners up have earned title contention for their respective efed champ (whomever it may be at the time) for a date later in the year (2nd place = no1 contender, 3rd = no2 and so on).

Now we have a years worth of title matches sorted in advanced and a schedule for everyone to follow. We can have an independent judicator sims the results ahead of time to ensure that no one efed can hog the title or other shenanigans.
Do the tourney again next year then rinse and repeat.

There are probably "better" ways to do it but in terms of making the title accessible and keeping things fair but also relatively low maintenance I can't really think of a better way.
My original edits: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1140

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:17 pm

The hardest part would be conflict resolution. Who makes decisions? is it always brought to a vote? Who gets to vote? etc.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:38 pm

Love Wilcox wrote:I think something like what BFX is proposing could work really well if we apply some proper controls and limits.

Let's say we have a "Champions Tournament" with a minimum of 12 entrants (hopefully more). The winner is crowned the champ of course and the next 11 runners up have earned title contention for their respective efed champ (whomever it may be at the time) for a date later in the year (2nd place = no1 contender, 3rd = no2 and so on).

Now we have a years worth of title matches sorted in advanced and a schedule for everyone to follow. We can have an independent judicator sims the results ahead of time to ensure that no one efed can hog the title or other shenanigans.
Do the tourney again next year then rinse and repeat.

There are probably "better" ways to do it but in terms of making the title accessible and keeping things fair but also relatively low maintenance I can't really think of a better way.


The problem with having a championship is that you need a booking team, and even with a booking team some decisions will not be fair to some people. Somebody has to determine who gets the title shot, and some people might want to give somebody who cut promos a lot a chance, while somebody else might want to give somebody who's edit always wins a chance. In the end, decisions will have to be made, and some will be pretty arbitrary.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Kristofferson » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:10 pm

Makar17 wrote:
Love Wilcox wrote:I think something like what BFX is proposing could work really well if we apply some proper controls and limits.

Let's say we have a "Champions Tournament" with a minimum of 12 entrants (hopefully more). The winner is crowned the champ of course and the next 11 runners up have earned title contention for their respective efed champ (whomever it may be at the time) for a date later in the year (2nd place = no1 contender, 3rd = no2 and so on).

Now we have a years worth of title matches sorted in advanced and a schedule for everyone to follow. We can have an independent judicator sims the results ahead of time to ensure that no one efed can hog the title or other shenanigans.
Do the tourney again next year then rinse and repeat.

There are probably "better" ways to do it but in terms of making the title accessible and keeping things fair but also relatively low maintenance I can't really think of a better way.


The problem with having a championship is that you need a booking team, and even with a booking team some decisions will not be fair to some people. Somebody has to determine who gets the title shot, and some people might want to give somebody who cut promos a lot a chance, while somebody else might want to give somebody who's edit always wins a chance. In the end, decisions will have to be made, and some will be pretty arbitrary.


Love Wilcox just explained in the post you quoted how you can have a championship programme complete with predetermined contenders without needing a booking team or arbitrary decisions.

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:48 am

Kristofferson wrote:
Makar17 wrote:
Love Wilcox wrote:I think something like what BFX is proposing could work really well if we apply some proper controls and limits.

Let's say we have a "Champions Tournament" with a minimum of 12 entrants (hopefully more). The winner is crowned the champ of course and the next 11 runners up have earned title contention for their respective efed champ (whomever it may be at the time) for a date later in the year (2nd place = no1 contender, 3rd = no2 and so on).

Now we have a years worth of title matches sorted in advanced and a schedule for everyone to follow. We can have an independent judicator sims the results ahead of time to ensure that no one efed can hog the title or other shenanigans.
Do the tourney again next year then rinse and repeat.

There are probably "better" ways to do it but in terms of making the title accessible and keeping things fair but also relatively low maintenance I can't really think of a better way.


The problem with having a championship is that you need a booking team, and even with a booking team some decisions will not be fair to some people. Somebody has to determine who gets the title shot, and some people might want to give somebody who cut promos a lot a chance, while somebody else might want to give somebody who's edit always wins a chance. In the end, decisions will have to be made, and some will be pretty arbitrary.


Love Wilcox just explained in the post you quoted how you can have a championship programme complete with predetermined contenders without needing a booking team or arbitrary decisions.


Who will make the "years worth of title matches" list? What if others don't like the list?
Who makes the "schedule for everyone to follow"? What if others can't/won't follow the schedule?
Who will be the "independent judicator" and how is he picked? What if the person isn't really the best choice?

The format that has being discussed here is actually "better". Whoever wants to make a show asks permission from creators to include their edits. This includes yearly tournaments where the winner just wins. Titles add an extra dimension of mess to the equation.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Kristofferson » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:14 pm

The list of matches would be made based on a simmed tournament for which everyone is invited.

If anyone doesn't like it they can... well do something else.

The schedule order is based on the tournament results. If people can't follow they will just need to catch up i guess. The agreement will be that the edit is committed to the schedule regardless.

The independent adjudicator is potentially contentious I agree, but this could be decided up front so everyone involved at least knows the deal before committing an edit and the way online matches work in World could mitigate suspicion.

I'm not saying it's the best or only way of having titles but to dismiss having them outright isn't fair.

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby SluggBugg » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:45 pm

G1 Climax, King of the Ring, Super J Cup, CZW Tournament of Death, Battle of LA, King of Trios, Tag Tournament Grand Prix, New Japan Cup, Ceese Memorial etc is the way to go in my opinion. That way there is no bookers needed, no title belts to keep up with, just easy and fun.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Love Wilcox » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:21 am

I'm not too fussed whether we have a fed wide title or not, I'm just trying to think of alternatives to having a booking team should the demand for a title be high enough.

This isn't something we have to figure out right now, I'm just throwing out ideas for future consideration.
My original edits: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1140

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:49 am

Well, we had titles and a booking team when FPCPP was a thing and it didn't work as well as planned. Sometimes they couldn't get shows done. By the end we didn't have any shows. Other times they made arbitrary decisions on who got title shots. You have to keep in mind that, even though Fire Pro is a huge deal for all of us, real life still has priorities and stuff will come up eventually and will keep the bookers or independent judicators away.

The way things have been done lately is far better. Whoever wants to make a show can do it, and the only requirement is to get clearance from edit owners.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Love Wilcox » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:30 am

Makar17 wrote:The way things have been done lately is far better. Whoever wants to make a show can do it, and the only requirement is to get clearance from edit owners.


I agree 100%. All I'm saying is that it MIGHT be possible to have a forum wide title that can work in conjunction with the newer system should the demand for such a thing be there. If we spend the next six months discussing it and ultimately come to the conclusion that it won't be possible or isn't worth the hassle then that's fine but it's early days yet and I think we should at the very least be open to ideas.
My original edits: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1140

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Four Skulls » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:30 am

So for this new thing, do we need to tag our edits with FPCPP just for clarity sake? I mean otherwise how would you know who to look for in the workshop?

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:27 am

FPCPP is no more. This project is now called the FPWA (Fire Pro Wrestling Alliance). Hi Four Skulls. Welcome back.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Four Skulls » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:11 pm

Ok, when we get on the workshop, how will we differentiate FPWA edits from those who are not? For the purposes of quickly searching for them without having to go through thousands of edits?

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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Leathers » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:33 pm

I am going to try and tag all my edits with FPWA as well as my Fed and forum name. The more metadata/tags the better. I would also say when uploading, add a bio to your edit. If he or she has a story and past, share it. I want to know your story. I would also say add what your usage rules (can you use them for shows, personal guidelines etc etc) and contact information.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Old Baby » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 pm

So, is there going to be a guide for how this all works? I never participated in FPCPP or really understood what it was about and now since it's all starting over I think I might want to join in.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:12 pm

Old Baby wrote:So, is there going to be a guide for how this all works? I never participated in FPCPP or really understood what it was about and now since it's all starting over I think I might want to join in.


Everyone is going to have to agree on how this works first :lol:

I think that some form of guide is a good idea though. There was definitely a learning curve for getting into the FPCPP. We don't need to see that repeated.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Leathers » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:28 pm

Level wrote:
Old Baby wrote:So, is there going to be a guide for how this all works? I never participated in FPCPP or really understood what it was about and now since it's all starting over I think I might want to join in.


Everyone is going to have to agree on how this works first :lol:

I think that some form of guide is a good idea though. There was definitely a learning curve for getting into the FPCPP. We don't need to see that repeated.


For sure. I was getting into FPCPP toward the end and it seemed welcoming but also fairly closed off. I think this first week or so is mainly going to be figuring out the game/experimenting. I am hoping we can go back and edit what we have initially shared through the workshop once we figure out some basic elements to better find each other.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:36 pm

Four Skulls wrote:Ok, when we get on the workshop, how will we differentiate FPWA edits from those who are not? For the purposes of quickly searching for them without having to go through thousands of edits?


The idea behind this whole FPWA thing is that there are no official FPWA edits like we used to have with FPCPP. FPWA is more of a thing where everybody runs their own promotion and any edit can be used in shows that are made by whoever can make a show. There are no more bookers or official match cappers. So if you have several edits, you list them and anybody who wants to make a show asks you for permission to use one of your edits for that show.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Level » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:46 pm

Makar17 wrote:
Four Skulls wrote:Ok, when we get on the workshop, how will we differentiate FPWA edits from those who are not? For the purposes of quickly searching for them without having to go through thousands of edits?


The idea behind this whole FPWA thing is that there are no official FPWA edits like we used to have with FPCPP. FPWA is more of a thing where everybody runs their own promotion and any edit can be used in shows that are made by whoever can make a show. There are no more bookers or official match cappers. So if you have several edits, you list them and anybody who wants to make a show asks you for permission to use one of your edits for that show.


Yeah, I think that's the idea. It might also be a good idea to have something here on the boards where people can "register" their edits or fed so people know they are participating.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Makar17 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:57 am

I suggested having an e-fed index on a single thread where everybody could post their info, roster, champions, etc.
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Re: Broadening our Horizons

Postby Kristofferson » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:31 pm

The new description text for Steam Workshop is a good place for people to record their permissions for use of their edits as well as bio info.


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